Polacy w Anglii

Všetko o zábave v Londýne a UK. Puby, kluby. Kultúrne aj športové vyžitie. Výlety.

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Vibovit
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Polacy w Anglii

Poslať od Vibovit » Štv Apr 27, 2006 3:12 pm

I wasn't quite sure which section I should start that thread in, so - sorry if it's in wrong one.

Anyway, I just wanted to ask what you think of polish people in the UK. Do you mix with them or rather stay with your own folks? Any good or bad experiences? What are the relations? Or do you just not care, as the case might be.

I'm polish myself. I have no special reason to ask, apart from that I'm just curious.
I've only been in London for 2 weeks - I moved here from smaller English town in which not that many neither Poles or Slovakians lived.

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Poslať od jaro » Štv Apr 27, 2006 3:22 pm

I don't mind Poles myself. I don't know any personally, although apparently there is a strong Polish community in my town.

My feelings are that Polish people are not too popular amongst Slovaks and Czechs. Perhaps because there are so many of you here, and like in any other big group of people, there are some assholes there as well.

Local Polish shops are handy for the deli though! :)

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polish your Polish, you will need it soon ;-)

Poslať od lukipuk » Štv Apr 27, 2006 4:43 pm

I have worked with a really nice Polish guy in Twickenham for a few months (his girlfriend was REALLY nice too ;-)
We got on well and totally agreed on one thing - we have not met too many nice people from our home countries (I am Czech myself) and most of the ones we did meet were just not up our streets at all.
But it might be all just a chance (now when I come to think of it - I have not met that many Czechs I liked in Prague either, so I guess it's maybe just me being very special (and not sure if that's a compliment or whether I have just spilled the beans...)
Anyway - thumbs up to lovely Polish girls and "special" Polish guys!!!

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Poslať od Brumteles » Štv Apr 27, 2006 8:18 pm

I have excellent relations with the Poles. I know lots of them,went to the uni with some, worked with some, some worked for me (the famous Polish handymen! but why don't they all look like on that campaign picture you had in France...) and count some among my best friends. Most of them are professionals, like me, working for the EU institutions etc. Other Slovaks also feel quite close to the Poles - it must be the language: when we have a party, we speak in a funny mixture of Slovak, Polish and English, most of us also follow each others politics (the EU integration agenda), you visit Tatras, we visit Warsaw or Krakow...But maybe I was just particularly lucky to meet the best of what Poland has to offer!

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Poslať od hlohovcan » Štv Apr 27, 2006 9:24 pm

I just came back from a birthday party of one polish bloke. We had some Wyborowa for dinner :-)
So I guess that we mingle a bit with Poles :-)
BTW, my girlfriend is Polish.
Pozdrawiamy.

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poles

Poslať od ihatesendvic » Štv Apr 27, 2006 11:42 pm

Poles I`ve met are mostly loosers, who spare every pence, they don`t even eat sometimes, because its too expansive :-]
They are usually strong physically, but they are not very strong in the mind, if you know what I mean.

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Poslať od Gina » Pia Apr 28, 2006 2:00 pm

ihatesendvic píšeCOLONPoles I`ve met are mostly loosers, who spare every pence, they don`t even eat sometimes, because its too expansive :-]
Many Slovaks are just the same.

My dentist is Polish; he is a guy with great sense of humour who is not bad to look at either. I had one amazing scale and polish this morning! :-)).

I don't mind Polish or any nationality for that matter. Its something else that I look for in a person.

And there is one thing Slovaks and Czechs will just never learn from Polish - community spirit. My respect!!

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Poslať od geekoon » Pia Apr 28, 2006 3:38 pm

My dentist is Polish
My dentist is polish as well, but sometimes he's horrible...

That's the reason why my tooth are still ill

Back to the theme. Polish people are fine, but one thing drive my crazy about them. They still tryin' speak their language.

Some of them are fine and other hand some of them are the most stupid creatures of the world. Same like with Czech and Slovak people.

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love slovaks as your own

Poslať od lukipuk » Pia Apr 28, 2006 3:52 pm

And there is one thing Slovaks and Czechs will just never learn from Polish - community spirit. My respect!!

hey my favourite slovak girl!

just a little something to your posting:

"Reichsprotector Reinhard Heydrich, when briefing his Prague gestapo chiefs, is quoted as warning them that while Poles and Yugoslavs were tough and stiff and easily broken by a strong enough force, the Czechs were spineless flexible twigs that bent down under pressure, only to lash back when least expected."

i want to be proud to be from where i am one day too!!!

;-)

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Poslať od Raccoon » Pia Apr 28, 2006 4:02 pm

At the same time, Heydrich also famously characterised the Czechs as "smiling beasts":-))

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Poslať od Gina » Pia Apr 28, 2006 4:12 pm

lukipuk píšeCOLONhey my favourite slovak girl!
I know this is so off topic, but I just so can't help myself (and I blame it on weather): YOU CZECH MEN ARE SO CHARMING!!! :-)).

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Poslať od Vibovit » Sob Apr 29, 2006 1:15 am

Well indeed there is enormous lot of polish yobs who flooded England (London in particular) and I, for one, feel discomfortable about it - as it's embarassing and giving us all bad name.

If you're patient enough to fathom the subject, you'll even spot different sorts of them - from "dresiarze" (chavs who always wear training suits, hence the name) to "wasy" (or "moustaches" - which usually means guys in their forties, known for very-small-town mentality) and so on

And I think that's the sort of people who Ihatesendvic talks about :) We're not all like that, but from what some of you say here it seems like you have your own yobs that you'd not like to be associated with.
Perhaps because you're just less numberous, they don't catch the eye (I also suspect that Brits tend to think they're Poles, anyway :) ).

Lukipuk where does that quote come from?
("Why there was no resistence movement? The Germans forbidden it" - in one version it's about Cracow, kind of basing on ours Warsaw-Cracow animosity, yet in the other, about the Czech ;) no offence)
geekoon píšeCOLONBack to the theme. Polish people are fine, but one thing drive my crazy about them. They still tryin' speak their language.
A tego nie rozumiem :)

cheers, southern cousins hehe

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czech your balance

Poslať od lukipuk » Sob Apr 29, 2006 12:20 pm

Vibovit píšeCOLONLukipuk where does that quote come from?
("Why there was no resistence movement? The Germans forbidden it" - in one version it's about Cracow, kind of basing on ours Warsaw-Cracow animosity, yet in the other, about the Czech ;) no offence)

cheers, southern cousins hehe
- the quote comes from one of my favourite books: Czechs and Balances http://www.svu2000.org/issues/kuras4.htm - I couldn't find it on the internet just now, but it is definitely in the book as a joke about Czechs having an excuse most of the time when the going gets tough. So we can put the saying like this for us brave: "When the going gets tough, the Czechs get an excuse" ;-)

Keep fighting, my proud northern cousin ;-)
Naposledy upravil 2 dňa lukipuk, celkovo upravené 0

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Poslať od geekoon » Sob Apr 29, 2006 3:00 pm

A tego nie rozumiem :)

cheers, southern cousins hehe
I just mention their need to speak in their language everywhere, where it's possible...

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YOU CS FOLKS ARE EITHER TOP OF ICEBERG OR TOTALLY LUNATIC

Poslať od motor » Ned Apr 30, 2006 1:30 am

HI THERE.

I HAVEN'T read any real life opinion on this subject.
just meaky blah blah blah. they are... but there's also some Czechs or Slovaks bla bla.
WTF that?

Dear Whoever Polish.
postings in this forum so far are not image of reality.
99% of Slovaks /I think less Czechs/ HATE or at least DISLIKE Polish.
THAT's the TRUTH.
It isn't based on my solemn opinion.
IT's based on many people I talked to, many things I've read or heard. Those that like polish, obviously haven't worked or even better, lived with them. or at least enough to get real picture.

I am Slovak born. I have no special reason to feel nationalist. rather opposite. I did not dislike Poland, Polish and especially their language until it was gradually ammased during last few years.

I do not turn blind eye on Czech or Slovak character and personality in general and especially abroad.

But I DO STRONGLY DISLIKE POLISH.
You wanna know reason? Many.
Are you asking if I had Polish friends in the past?
YES, I HAD. Or at least people I considered friends until some of them let me down/pissed me off/etc.

Wanna hear reasons of many Slovaks in the UK?

1) Polish are lazy. playing stupid /if they aren't enough/ not to work hard enough or do things what they should or to a degree of quality they should.

2) Polish work for less than minimum wage or in job where no tax is paid.
(not every, but still too many. and if not, they work for less than it would be paid to someone else) that means breaking labour laws, encouraging employers to hire them illegally /YES, illegally in breach of law, not their status in the UK or Ireland/. This wage dumping is negative not only towards another foreign jobseekers, but also locals.
EG lorry/bus drivers, construction labourers, farm workers, also in hospitality
THIS IS STRONG REASON FOR MANY SLOVAKS AS THEY COME HERE TO WORK IN MOSTLY CRAP JOBS THAT ARE BEING TAKEN BY POLISH

3) sole amount of polish coming to UK
4) their general attitude
5) as mentioned, they want to speak polish even to people who DON'T want to speak nearly-polish to them
6) POLISH MAKE BAD NAME ALSO TO SLOVAKS AS THEY ARE SEEN AS THE SAME BY BRITISH OR IRISH IN MANY CASES
either by their vulgar loud behaviour /groups of males/ or by the level of language skills, job skills etc of majority of them.

7) Polish are too sophisticated /in US meaning/ and greedy.
8) except 1 Polish, I haven't heard or met anyone who keeps their house/flat clean enough. This is general fact. Level of dirtiness can be comparable maybe only to Spanish.
9) Czechs/Slovaks do not want to feel like in Poland wherever they turn or go. Being addressed in polish or mistaken for them. Having to listen to polish all the time.

AND OF COURSE THIS LIST ISN'T DEFINITE.

YES. THIS IS GENERAL. THERE AREN'T ALL OF THEM LIKE THAT. NOT AT ALL. BUT WAY TOO MANY.

If you or someone else truly cannot fit to any of these features I mentioned, my congratulations.

As I said, I had some Polish friends. but having to meet so many is off-putting enough to seek refuge from them.
I am kind of person that likes good people. So I avoid making any close contact. Both in case they are assholes or I might like them. Which is luxury in these days.

Martin

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Re: YOU CS FOLKS ARE EITHER TOP OF ICEBERG OR TOTALLY LUNATI

Poslať od Vibovit » Ned Apr 30, 2006 4:49 pm

From the tone of your post, Martin, I would have guessed myself that the friends let you down, because it sounds a bit personal, on the whole.
Anyway, it's interesting to read something different this much - and thank you for being "politically incorrect" ;)

But actually, how do you know (if you know) that the percentage of polish illegal workers is higher than slovakian or czech, and what do you think is the reason for that? (Personally I doubt it).


Note that in the very same post you say Poles are greedy - and yet it's the greedy ones who agree to work for less and don't mind?!? :)
I believe that you understand why it sounds like a contradiction to me (more especially, in the context of the action taken by polish workers at Tesco Distribution in Dublin, for example).
5) as mentioned, they want to speak polish even to people who DON'T want to speak nearly-polish to them
[...] 9) Czechs/Slovaks do not want to feel like in Poland wherever they turn or go. Being addressed in polish or mistaken for them.
And this is something new for me. Honestly, I haven't realised you are sensitive about it (and if that's what Geekoon meant, too, I just did not understand it properly).

We rather enjoy the similarity of languages (apart from making fun of it, sometimes, which is not meant to be an insult) and I'm unable to imagine getting offended by being mistaken for Slovakian or Czech - however it might become annoying if it happened to me repeatedly I'm sure.

So perhaps it is just bigger nation/smaller nation different point of view, I don't know.
What pisses ME off is that we're altogether confused with Eastern Europe, but that's a different story.
99% of Slovaks /I think less Czechs/ HATE or at least DISLIKE Polish.
Why less Czechs?
Polish are lazy. playing stupid /if they aren't enough/ not to work hard enough or do things what they should or to a degree of quality they should.
Hmm so we won't probably agree here.

Most of Central Europeans work in very poor jobs - now this is a statistical fact - and noone really appreciates the "quality" of kitchen porter's or shelf-stacker's work.

Just look at the Brits, who (rarely) do those jobs.

In my opinion it's more stupid to bust your arse for nothing - and, what's more, how is it different from working for smaller wage? Both ways you end up raising the employer's expectations for the others.

Because agreeing to be paid less - and agreeing to work more/harder for the same money - finally amount to the same thing, don't they? :)
4) their general attitude
OK
8) except 1 Polish, I haven't heard or met anyone who keeps their house/flat clean enough.
Well I can't actually imagine how one might "hear that somebody keeps their flat clean", but I know I'm being mean now :) sorry.
So, thanks for your post - and have a nice day everybody.

PS. Thank you for the link, Lukipuk

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Re: YOU CS FOLKS ARE EITHER TOP OF ICEBERG OR TOTALLY LUNATI

Poslať od motor » Ned Apr 30, 2006 8:28 pm

Vibovit píšeCOLONF it sounds a bit personal, on the whole.
thank you for being "politically incorrect" ;)

..if percentage of polish illegal workers is higher than slovakian or czech, and.. reason for that?

...like a contradiction to me
...Tesco Distribution in Dublin
....And this is something new for me. Honestly, I haven't realised you are sensitive about it
... We rather enjoy the similarity of languages..
..What pisses ME off .. confused with Eastern Europe
...less Czechs/ HATE or at least DISLIKE Why less Czechs?
..Polish are lazy. playing stupid not to work hard enough ..degree of quality..

YOUR WORDS
--------------------------------------------------
..and noone really appreciates the "quality" of kitchen porter's or shelf-stacker's work.
Just look at the Brits, who (rarely) do those jobs.
In my opinion it's more stupid to bust your arse for nothing - and, what's more, how is it different from working for smaller wage? Both ways you end up raising the employer's expectations for the others.
Because agreeing to be paid less - and agreeing to work more/harder for the same money - finally amount to the same thing, don't they? :)
-------------------------------------------
..Well I can't actually imagine how one might "hear that somebody keeps their flat clean", but I know I'm being mean now :) sorry.
It gets bit confused quoting quoted quotes so I'll just try to reply to certain points. Mostly in order. Or you can find the meaning of some phrases left over to shorten this pretty long stuff anyway

1> good. It's not meant to be politically correct language. that's just loads of bollocks. I've been fed up with it long time ago. Whether it was USA or UK. Dunno man, it's not just personal. Sometimes I wasn't let down by friends. Just colleagues. I am not steaming in front of my PC writing this, or something. It's as I said, both many personal experiences and from friends, people I got to know somehow and talked to about it, situations I have experienced.

2> Now you sound like smartass reasoning like that. I'll get to each of those I mean.

3> These few things are bit interconnected.
I CANNOT guess any numbers, any figures, naturally.
In general, Czechs and Slovaks do not want to be exploited that much. Naturally, I've heard of some stories or personal experiences, but many of them included also how the person couldn't put up with changed or worsened conditions and just left etc.. And, there is sort of people that just can't find anything else because of their abilities and non-existent language. So they are bit specific.

4> AAY. Why should it contradict working for less than minimum wage and being greedy?
There's plethora of Polish who take up employment where other don't want to work. Minimum wage is defined per hour.
If you have 40 /37,5nett hrs/ hpw @ £5.05=£189,4 in casual shop or restaurant job. without tips. that's gross. right? should do about £155 net pw (rough estimate)
If you could work 50 hours cash in hand for £4 total nett, would make £200 cash nett per week.
Which one would you take?
Would you decline the cash in hand job if you weren't offered the one with paying tax,NI?
If it would mean you have to look for such job longer? That's what I doubt.

Plus you cannot even think of this case in absolute majority of Polish coming here. They take ANY job they could. That's OK. I can understand. They flock to factories, work for companies that charge them too much for housing, etc. rather some job than none, right? Doesn't matter it's illegal. As long as they do not stay in the UK illegally... Right? Hm.

Being greedy means in another words, to value money above other things. Rather to have more than less. Less with social rights, better standard of living, etc.

5> I've read two articles about Tesco Distribution.
I agree that it's abusive to increase targets above health and safety norms.
What you fail to see, is the amount of protesting fellows. Doesn't seem to me like BIG DEMO to me.
Just few people. the others rather work and hold their mouth shut.

COMPLAINING ABOUT BEING LAID OFF WHEN WORKING FOR TEMP AGENCY, WORKING VIA PERSONAL LEASING..
They don't get business rules. It's more convenient to have agency workers. Factories, stores, etc.
To meet demand, not to bother with personal management, etc..
WHAT F****NG reason would be for Tesco to hire loads of them to permanent posts?
I AM STRICTLY AGAINST endangering employees' safety.
But the rest is just laughable.
They don't have to work there. They want to work there. If they don't, they just tell agency. There's plenty of other Polish whingeing for the shifts..

6> People asking me if I speak English, people trying to talk to me sloowly presuming I am Polish, etc.. real fun. Trust me, I do not have high opinion about Scots and English in general, but still annoying to me all this stuff.

7> Well, I know whatcha mean. drevokocur etc.. some words are ridiculous to speaker of other language.
But I wasn't talking of two friends, flatmates, Slovak and Polish speaking 'slovlish'. If they both want, it's fine.
But after finding out I am Slovak and someone wants to speak Polish to me, I politely ask them to use ENGLISH, and they get angry and feel offended.
How's that? Hmm

8) Less Czechs in the UK, less experience between, more tolerant maybe and definitely less jealous and peer-conscious concerning labour market competition.

9) forget CENTRAL or MIDDLE Europe. different thinking, history. easier if just EAST vs WEST. Plus, times until the end of Eighties, as it was more political term. EAST. everything in Soviet sphere.. Just ignore it. You know that. Take it as halved circle. left, right. East, West.

10> I don't expect you to agree. I've experienced it many times. Flagrant avoiding working properly, working less, trying to hide what should be done, etc. I got shouted by my Czech boss in the USA that those two Polish I brought /helping them with job/ are doing fuck-all and bad quality work. no need to write more about this. plus I worked alongside many Polish in shop in London, as KP as well. and as I said, from talking to friends etc.
I DID NOT SAY I HAVEN'T HEARD OF HARD-WORKING GUYS. but far less than the others.

QUALITY. employee is supposed to do the job properly. no f***ing matter how much is paid. there's too many locals and others working for the same crap wage which is, or is nearly min wage.
SAYING SO AS YOU DO, even thinking of it and backing up that idea not to work good enough, it's just badly paid job, THAT'S PLAYING SMARTASSES, CALCULATING LAZINESS.


11> Locals have been here bit longer, have local qualifications, degrees, language, etc. the don't need to work in crap jobs. Although lower level of society does. as well as immigrant having been here couple years already..

12> cleanliness. I acknowledge that Spanish are pretty bad in general. Some Aussies and Kiwis as well. These guys in meaning that their level of what's clean is not clean enough.
Another thing is that it happens to Polish males much more. Especially if males only flatshare. Girls are quite tidy. I've been to Slovak+some Polish share. pretty mess too.
My previous share, Polish, Scottish, Spanish. That Polish was the least dirty. but the shared facilities were awful. And I am not very sensitive.

REMEMBER, this all is general speaking. I do not label individuals who do not fit. And, what's more, it doesn't mean these features happen to be in group with certain persons.

But I do try to avoid Polish wherever I can. I am not abusive or something. Not at all.

Another thing, it's always easier to point out negative things and especially regarding other ethnic or nationality groups. I will hold on to my opinion until I have strong evidence to reconsider it. Due to presence of these featuers I mentioned with Polish, also amongst Slovaks, I do not want to get to know too many Slovaks around either.

You avoided shunning that wages dumping, boy.
Nobody's forced to work /to save up money for coming back anyway/ in the UK. And breaking the rules, complying with being abused - none of them is compulsory..

I ain't gonna reply to you again as I find it time-consuming to do to such extent.

When you don't hear something or just white lies or 'politically correct' stuff, doesn't mean it's not real..

Last, I have no illusions you would understand everything I say. You seem to be OK guy, but you also suffer from trying to outsmart others and the system.

Martin

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Poslať od motor » Sob Máj 06, 2006 12:49 am

Brumteles píšeCOLONBut maybe I was just particularly lucky to meet the best of what Poland has to offer!
Bet you did.

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motor

Poslať od lukipuk » Ned Máj 07, 2006 1:28 pm

fcuk me...!

just reading it made me fatally tired - making any sense of it was a bridge too far ;-)

anyway - does anyone seem to know how many poles there are in the uk, london or edinburgh? i had a couple of figures quoted by some polish guys for edinburgh, ranging from 25.000 to 70.000!!! and for the uk from 500.000 to 2.000.000 ;-)

what do you think?

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Re: numbers...

Poslať od motor » Ned Máj 07, 2006 4:41 pm

lukipuk píšeCOLONpolish guys for edinburgh, ranging from 25.000 to 70.000!!! and for the uk from 500.000 to 2.000.000 ;-)

what do you think?
bollocks. there's maybe about 10'000 Polish in Edinburgh. Although it seems to me more.
London is another story. or Dublin

thing is, issues WRS registration do not reflect reality as not everybody does it /although it's legal requirement/, and not everybody stays longer than summer. Shitloads of people from everywhere coming to the UK just for summer. you know that.

so, official figures of 130'000 from last August or so, aren't exact.. plus, since then..

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